Please (re)read Chapter 18 and post an interpretive question (one that might inspire a discussion, not one that simply needs clarification). This post will be just the question.
Then, respond fully to another student's question. This post will require a more in-depth response.
These TWO posts are due by Thursday 3pm :-)
***If you have NOT received an email from me regarding our next text, please come see me!*****
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ReplyDeleteOn page 241 in Chapter 18, Bernard asks John, "Did you eat something that didn't agree with you?" and John replies, "I ate civilization." Later, on page 246, John buys the pan-glandular biscuits and vitaminized beef-surrogate at the persuasion of the shopkeeper when he is moving to the lighthouse. He then scolds himself for buying the "loathsome civilized stuff," claiming "he would never eat it, even if he were starving." Do you think he is trying to clean the taste of society from his mouth by denying himself the food as a result of his deeply rooted beliefs? And do you think his beliefs as shown through his actions in chapter 18 and throughout the book are what led to his ultimate demise? Discuss! :)
ReplyDeleteHolly Denton
Block 2
On page 219 in Chapter 18, when discussing the beautiful nature surrounding his new home at the lighthouse, John asks “Who was he to be living in the visible presence of God?” and claims that “all he deserved to live in was some filthy sty.” Why do you think John would feel that he didn’t deserve to be living in the presence of God, when he is much more devoted than all the others in the “New World” who are completely blind to God? Especially when he “did God’s will” in a sense by determinedly attempting to reveal all the true beauty and faith in life to the corrupt society?
ReplyDeletePiper Miller (Block 4)
In response to Holly’s question:
ReplyDeleteJohn clearly shows disdain towards all aspects of the “New World” and modern society, so it is apparent that he is trying to cleanse himself of all their impure societal elements that he disagrees with.
His beliefs and values in intellect through Shakespeare and poetry, respect of elders, faith in God, desire to know truth, individual choices, and love and passion are what guided him to later despise the predetermined, unintellectual, robotic society that is the New World. These intense beliefs, such as purification and forgiveness by God through self-punishment, are what drove him away from society, but I do not believe that they directly led to his demise. The constant pushing and pressure from society, such as news reporters and helicopters full of people watching and following him, are what compelled him to feel no escape from their imposing and irritating eyes. The act of hanging himself was primarily due to society intruding on his private life and belittling him to the point where he was treated like “an ape” (pg. 227) inside a cage. All John wanted was to be free of society to practice his beliefs in solitude; but he ultimately discovered no other way to find peace from the horrors of civilization except through death. His beliefs, in a way, did lead to this final decision and way of life, but they are not what plunged him towards his demise.
Piper Miller (Block 4)
In response to Piper's question:
ReplyDeleteI think that John felt that he didn't deserve to be living in the physical presence of God, as a result of who he was and the upbringing he had. To every extent, John was an anomaly. To be a child born of two people harvested in the World State was something entirely unheard of, as they had the almost automatic Malthusian Drill. He was shunned by the people in the Savage Reservation, telling Bernard, "They shut me out of absolutely everything,"(pg 137) while also treated as less like an equal in the World State and more like a new shiny object. John felt that if he did not fit into any sort of society, he was not worthy to be seen by God. He sought to prove himself, not only by working harder and trying to reform the society of the World State, but also through his self punishment. He felt that no one but God could understand his suffering, as he was "so alone." (pg 137) John did not feel like a worthy part of society because he was pushed so far on the outskirts. He felt that he could only turn to the intellectual aspects of life to justify it, having a particular love for Shakespeare. John also had two conflicting point of views that made him question God's place for him in society and whether he deserved to be in society in the first place, such as when Linda says, "Being mad's infectious I believe," and "Which made it easier for me to condition him a little."(pg 122) He finds it hard to be able to be worthy of being seen by God. He lived around those who believe in God, as well as his mother Linda, who believed in Ford. I feel as though his self worth was at stake and he was conflicted as to what right he had to be seen by God, when the rest of his life was filled with people shunning him.
I also believe that while John did "God's will," he felt as though he did not perform the task of revealing all true beauty and faith in life to the corrupt society adequately. He attempted to stop the people from taking soma, saying, "Don't take that horrible stuff. It's poison, it's poison,"(pg 211) and reveal what soma really does, which is stops people from truly living. He asks the people, "Don't you even understand what manhood and freedom are?" (pg 213) When he cannot stir enough of a reaction out of the people, John once again felt as though he let down God, and did not deserve to be in the presence of God, or live in the lighthouse. He simply felt as though he let God down, and was not worthy as a result.
Holly Denton
Block 2
Page 257 depicts John attacking a woman, which Huxley implies is Lenina. Taking into consideration the previous things John had experienced, what really prompted John's outburst?
ReplyDeleteCinthya Castro
Block 2
On page 259, Chapter 18, Huxley implies John has hung himself, "...under the crown of the arch dangled a pair of feet." Besides the literal significance of committing suicide and outburst with those who he wasn't able to relate to, is it possible the seclusion from all society, including the one he preferred to view as legit, was the death of him?
ReplyDelete~Katherine Carrazana
Block 2
In response to Cinthya's Question:
ReplyDeleteLenina is conveyed as the woman being attacked by John considering Huxley's description of the woman. The outburst proceeds when the woman is said to have acted in an "impassioned gesture" stretchering "out her arms towards the Savage."
Previously in Chapter 13, page 194, following Lenina's revealing actions, John is depicted as catching "her by the wrists," tearing "her hands from his shoulders," thrusting "her roughly away at arm's length," and then proceeding this turmoil, John discharges framing Lenina as a "Damned whore!"
Peculiarly enough, the two occurrences correlate through the actions of both Lenina and John. Which could possibly explain the course of action taken by John on Page 257 when he is described rushing towards the woman "like a madman." Not knowing any better, or having the ability of common sense, the Savage more than likely connected both exertions, contributing to the stress of the situation.
~Katherine Carrazana
Block 2
Although in Brave New World they are conditioned to not be effected by pain or death on pg. 258 the crowd was fixated on John waiting for him to whip himself because "Pain was a fascinating horror" to them. Could it be stated that although they are conditioned and have soma available to them, the human fascination with pain and death can never be eliminated?
ReplyDelete-Andrea Siluk
Block 2
On page 259, the last paragraph of chapter 18 compares the Savage's dangling feet to "two unhurried compass needles." What is the significance of the repeated direction the feet turn?
ReplyDeleteCheyenne Hall
block 4
In Chapter 18, page 259,it is discovered that John has hanged himself. Even though John was a very religious person who tried to abstain from the sins of society. He committed suicide which overall is one of the worst sins to commit. How does this represent John? Would you consider him still as a religious person or as one of the many sinners of society?
ReplyDelete~Ginette Norvelus
2nd Block : )
During the final chapter, the news was spread far and wide that John, the savage, had receeded to an abandoned lighthouse to dodge the experiment he was under. Why didn't the Controller do anything about this news?
ReplyDeleteIsaac Amor
Block 2
In response to Andrea's question:
ReplyDeleteYes you can state that although they were conditioned and have soma available to them, the human fascination with pain and death can never be eliminated. Because they aren't conditioned to see pain and death, they are conditioned to be happy and have no feelings. So actually being able to witness such an act where John is whipping himself is just fascinating and horrible at the same time. For example in Chapter 7, pages 115-116, when Bernard and Lenina are at the Reservation and are witnessing a ceremony where a boy is being whipped. Lenina does not have the strength to continue to watch the horrific scene but Bernard was able to take it all in. Both Bernard and Lenina have never witnessed anything like that which is also why they were able to watch for so long. They were fascinated and horrified at the same time because they were not conditioned to pain and death
~Ginette Norvelus
2nd Block : )
A major reason John chose to live in the lighthouse was due to its solitude. Why does John continue to reside in the lighthouse after being discovered by society rather than moving somewhere else?
ReplyDeleteEric Marshall
Block 2
In Chapter 18, page 245 the passage that begin with "Beyond them, above the intervening woods, rose the fourteen-story.." and end with, "During the first days the Savage lived alone and undisturbed." Explain why Huxley uses intense imagery and diction to describe the setting? And does the detailed description have a significant connection to the event that follows?
ReplyDeleteTatjana Lightbourn
2nd Block
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ReplyDeleteIn chapter 18 John is recorded punishing himself by the Feely Corporation'a most expert photographer, Darwin Bonaparte. What is the significance of Huxley giving this particular photographer such an influential name, alluding to Charles Darwin and Napoleon Bonaparte? How is John being portrayed based on these allusions?
ReplyDeleteJAlina Pittman Block 2
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ReplyDeleteDo you believe that Bernard and Helmholtz banishment to the island was done more for their sakes or to push John over the edge? Did their forced "abandonment" of him even have any significance on his actions? Would John have acted a different way if he had his "diciples" with him?
ReplyDeleteSylvia Percovich
Block IV
On page 221 John catches himself singing. This action, is regarded as sinful in John's mind, so he proceeds to purify himself with mustard and water. Then again on pg. 225 he entertains thoughts about Lenina, which cause him to whip himself repeatedly. What is the underlying purpose of his constant self infliction of pain, and why must he REPEATEDLY whip/poison himself to achieve redemption?
ReplyDeleteEbonie Wells
BLOCK II
In response to Cheyenne
ReplyDeleteHuxley uses the repeated direction to describe John's feet as a connection to the flooding of the citizens from Brave New World to his lighthouse. It is significant because it is a symbol for how John was never truly able to evade civilization.
Mustapha Mond denies John the ability to go the island. Do you think Mustapha know that John will eventually kill himself due to the pressures of the new society or was his denial a symbol of the societies ignorance towards true emotional stress?
ReplyDeleteAt the end of chapter 18, John attacks Lenina and the spectators become excited and intrigued. They begin to dance wildly and partake in a giant sex-orgy, all while John beats Lenina, truly like a savage. How does the beating of Lenina connect to the "Orgy-Porgy" act taken place steps away. How does this relate to the religious motif throughout the novel?
ReplyDelete-Evan Jackson
Block Deux
On page 244 John's first night in the lighthouse he spent the night praying to various gods, I think, like Jesus, Claudius and even in Zuni. Why is he doing this?
ReplyDeleteIn response to Katherine Carrazana's question,
ReplyDeleteYes, I do believe that the seclusion was a MAJOR factor in the seemingly inevitable hanging. John himself stated (in chapter 17 pg. 211) "it is natural to believe in God when you're alone-quite alone, in the night, thinking about death...." One could even consider that that statement foreshadowed his death in the next chapter. By being left alone, thoughts about God arose, then came his conversion to becoming this deeply religious individual whose sins eventually overcame him.
When left alone with his thoughts, John mulled over the sins he believed he had committed, the sadness of his mothers death, and his promise to her to "never forget". Well, never forgetting seems to be the root of his hanging. Constant thoughts of Lenina, the brave new world, and their ways gently pushed him to the edge every time a thought surfaced. He wanted to be shut out from all the people who never left him alone, but when having achieved isolation, his own mind was his #1 enemy.
Ebonie Wells
Block II
IN RESPONSE to Sylvia...
ReplyDeleteI do believe that Bernard and Helmholtz banishment pushed John over the edge but I dont exactly believe that it was done to watch him eventually kill himself. It was only suppose to keep him in the society to continue to use him as a comparison between both societies. Their abandonment did influence his action because John was able to connect with them, which gave him a sense a security. This probably could be the reason why Mustapha Mond denied him the ability to leave. If John had his disciples,he would have not killed himself. John felt a sense of loneliness, therefore having someone that he could relate to would not have led him to desire to kill himself
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ReplyDeleteOn Page 218 When John felt that he earned the right to inhabit the lighthouse why does John feel he is unworthy to do so? Huxley alludes to the Lighthouse as a place of religion by referencing the glass(stained glass windows in most catholic churches) and the fine platform(preachers stand) to signify a difference in this setting compared to most. But what does John do to be unworthy?
ReplyDeleteKarlens Direny
Block 4
In the final two pages of chapter 18, Huxley indicates that John took soma, as shown by the quote "stupefied by soma, and exhausted... sleeping in the heather" (p.258). What theme is implied by the scene of "the savage" taking the soma after he has refused it for so long? Support your answer with the text.
ReplyDeleteOn page 257, Lenina enters the lighthouse, with open arms to John; then he rushes towards her like a "madman" and continuously whips her. Why does John feel he has the authority to punish her and how does this connect to the allusion of her on page 252?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOn page 258, Lenina calls for Henry out of fear of John, but Henry retreats, the text says, “But her ruddy-faced companion had bolted out of harm's way behind the helicopter." What does Henry's action suggest about the civilized society as a whole, and since the civilized society mirrors our own real-life society, what does his action suggest about human nature?
ReplyDeleteIn response to Cody’s question, I think the quote can be interpreted two ways. John’s action of taking the soma can be compared to the human condition and how at our weakest point, we as humans would take happiness over truth. John gave in to the civilized scapegoat of soma to run from his problems, and we as humans do the same. We use drugs, drinking, anything to escape from a really hard situation, we would trade the hard way and what we have been taught for an easy way out. The other way I interpreted John and his consumption of soma is, sub-consciously, maybe he wanted to die. Linda dies in the end because of her overdose of soma; the drug shortened her life span and in the end killed her. In the same way there could have been a parallel between John taking soma and his death and Linda taking soma and her death. The underlying theme could be that the easy way out or the scapegoat that we as humans choose to use could eventually kill us, we would rather live a short happy life than a longer one with truth and hardship and difficult situations.
ReplyDeleteRather than coming right out and saying that "John hung himself" why does Huxley allude to the action and say "..under the crown of the arch dangled a pair of feet." What does this allusion volunteer to the overall theme of the novel as a whole? As well as what does this add to the general mood of the chapter?
ReplyDeleteArien Tripp
Does anyone else find it interesting that John escapes to a Lighthouse, because lighthouse are beacons for those lost, and they radiate out light?
ReplyDeleteIn the end of the book, John escapes society and lives a solitary and monk - like life in a lighthouse. Do you find his escape from society (and eventual suicide) more admirable than his other option, which was become a controller the way Mustapha Mond did.
ReplyDeleteRev. Mack Kennedy
When I read chapter 18, I noticed that John used the savage word, "kohakwa iyathtokyai!", agressively when the newsreporters were bothering him. When I looked it up, it was defined as, "Pain's a delusion". What type of pain is a delusion then ? Or what ails pain to make it cease ?
ReplyDeleteIn response to the Reverend Mack Kennedy...
ReplyDeleteI believe that this escape to the lighthouse in which John lived this ascetic life, was the more admirable decision. The ending reminded me of "The Awakening", when Edna lived in solitude and committed suicide to escape her oppression. I believe that John was being oppressed by the society and did not want to conform and give up what he loved like Mustapha Mond did.
Mustapha Mond in my opinion is very paralled to John in the sense that they are almost the same person. On a personal level I think of "Back to the Future 2", when Marty has to clear up his name and revert the future back on its natural course. John, being Marty of the past and Mond, Marty of the future. Mond gave up his love for knowledge to this society to make others happy. Mond in a sense knows what emotions and sacrifices are and highly respects them. Mond states that thats the price he paid to serve happiness (pg 229). John is very similar and highly respects his love for Lenina and his friends Helmholtz and Bernard. When he is in the lighthouse being hounded by the reporters, John embraces his title, "The Savage", and truly behaves the way he is described, so his life is true and genuine and he could not go back to the reservation or civilization and ruin this, so suicide was his only way of escaping with this purity.
When John states the providence is used by the Gods to degrade the individual (pg 236). John carried out God's will and the society was not ready to accept it, so John left it, similar to how God left the reservation on pg 116. His escape was the more admirable decision than living this fake life.
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ReplyDeleteTowards the end of the book , Huxley begins to describe John like an animal . He mentions how society treated him "as an ape" (Pg.255) and how he retreated into "the posture of an animal at bay" (Pg.255) . Likewise , the same can be seen in the description of society . At one point , they are chanting and "the phrase was repeated, parrot-fashioned, again and again" (Pg.256). So my question is , what is Huxley trying to say by describing them this way ?
ReplyDeleteOn the first page of chapter 18, Bernard asks John if he had eaten anything that didn't agree with him and John replies that he "Ate Civilization." Why does he say this, and what is the signifiance of his response?
ReplyDeleteBrandon Richards
Block 2
In Chapter 18, at the re-introduction of the "Brave New World", John behaves more savagely than at any other point in the entirety of the book. He is compared to an animal in a cage. He brutally murders Lenina in an act of angry and unthought passion like a beast. Do you think that Huxley purposely portrayed John as what we would consider civilized until his total breakdown to prove a point? And if so what is the point and how did it impact the message Huxley was sending?
ReplyDelete-Tatiana
Block 2
In response to Tatjana's question:
ReplyDeleteHuxley's use of imagery helps set up the lighthouse scene. The area was so pristine to John that an "eye accustomed to the aridities of the American desert," would find the area "astonishing." By including that the land was previously unvisited since the flowers were the only "attraction," it is clearly foreshadowing the upcoming events. It is no secret that John was the attraction of the Brave New World society, and when he went into hiding it didn't seem like it would be the end of seeing him. Huxley purposely mentions the lack of visitors to the light house to imply that perhaps John will become the new attraction of that land.
Cinthya Castro
Block 2
In response to James question ,
ReplyDeleteJohn prayed to Jesus , Awonawilona (Zuni is the launguage) , Pookong , and even the eagle . You asked why he did this , and my answer is as a way to purify himself . At the beginning of Chapter 18 (Page 241) John has purposely made himself sick with mustard and warm water saying , "That's how the Indians always purify themselves " (Page 242) . At this point , he is desperate . He wants to get away from society but is being forced to stay . When asked where he'll go , he replies , "Anywhere. I don't care. So long as I can be alone." (Page 243) . However , the harsh reality is that he can't be alone . He is in a society , with rules and customs that he's against . Yet there's nothing he can do about them and his attempts have been nothing but failure . His praying to so many Gods , seems to me to be a desperate cry for help . It foreshadowed that he was close to giving up and his end was near .
In response to Sarah’s question, what Henry does is typical of most societies. It takes a lot to become anyone’s hero, and when Henry darts away from the woman who is presumed to be Lenina, it is merely another example of how completely deluded, self centered, and destructive the human race is. Huxley’s message was that we will destroy ourselves with this insanity, and we will. The civilized society of Brave New World is not civilized at all; they are mean and self serving despite the so called equality of their system. It takes someone who has passion, and conviction- someone who has felt pain- to be able to exercise self sacrifice, and no one in Brave New World who would be able to stop John could have. They were brainwashed and vapid because “everyone belongs to everyone else”, so why should the death of one person matter? Until someone actually “feels something strongly” and “knows passion”, they aren’t going to want to give up anything for anyone but themselves because they are conditioned... as we are... to think that way.
ReplyDelete-Tatiana
Block 2
In response to Eric's question:
ReplyDeleteJohn looked at the lighthouse as the epitomy of escape from society because the light itself in religious context is allegorical to heaven. John can literally ascend to this light, which makes for the perfect symbol of reaching his own purity. Since the lighthouse could become overrun by society just as easily as he settled there, he concludes that there is no better place to go and promptly escapes in the only fashion in which eludes all of us.
Isaac Amor
Block 2
After seeing Lenina again, on page 258, it says that John was "stupefied by soma". Why do you think he took the soma after all the fighting against it and the civilization as a whole?
ReplyDeleteIzabella Szura
Block 2
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ReplyDeleteIn chapter 18 page 247 before John begins inflicting pain on himself, he begins to think about Linda, "poor Linda, and his own murderous unkindness to her", what did John mean by that? In what ways was he unkind to her?
ReplyDeleteDanielle Malcolm
Block 4
On page 247, John blushed guiltily because he caught himself singing while working. Why is it that John feels that he should prevent himself from having any kind of enjoyment? If he went to be made good, why must he not sing and enjoy himself?
ReplyDeleteFrancheska Periche
Block 2
In the beginning of chapter 18 John reveals that he wanted to go to the islands with Bernard and Helmholtz, but Mustapha Mond would not let him go for the sake of the experiment. Do you think that the Controller had the intention of going on with the experiment or do you think he meant to drive John to his death to prove to society that one should never go against authority? Use support from the text. (You may want to consider what you know about the experiment, Mustapha Mond’s past and present views on society, and the brutal road leading up to John’s hanging.)
ReplyDeleteAmy Marshall
Block 2
In response to Izabella's question,
ReplyDeleteI think it was because he was driven into a corner. Although he fought so much to get rid of the soma and to help others realize the corruption behind it, there wasn't much that one one man could do and he gave in. An entire civilization fighting against him, he realized this and gave in. Then by waking up, remembering everything that happened, he hung himself from the shame he endured after giving up for everything that he fought for.
In response to Chandler's question. I think that it is very interesting that he escapes to the lighthouse. Although lighthouses are usually manned by one man (in this case John) it is suppose to lead the light for lost vessels ( in this case society.) I think that this was Huxley's way of saying that despite John being a savage he was the guiding light of society much like Jesus was . This is yet another parallel of John and Jesus in this chapter. One also needs to look at the ironic fact that a lighthouse is quite a spectacle. One is lured to it for it is the only light., much like a shiny object. This is the way that society responds to John's self banishment. He is treated as if he were a zoo animal to be awed over. Rather then blocking society away John set up his own downfall by securing that they would never leave him. I think it is quite a beautiful and almost tormented parallel to foreshadow what was to come.
ReplyDeleteSylvia Percovich
Block IV
In response to Ebonie’s question:
ReplyDeleteRight before he begins whipping himself he has thoughts about Linda’s death rather than Lenina. The purpose of John inflicting pain on himself is so he can essentially redeem himself of his sins. He wants redemption from taking Linda out of the Reservation and dumping her into the “civilized society” where she was overdosed with soma. John feels if he and Linda had stayed on the Reservation than she would still be alive, and she would not have died in that callous hospital room with those “loathsome twins, swarming like lice”. John constantly washes away his sins so that he does not take in the filth of civilized life.
Danielle Malcolm
Block 4
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ReplyDeleteIn Response to Danielle's Question
ReplyDeleteOn Page 225 John says poor Linda because he has forgotten her presence and her being, not because he was unkind or did anything to physically hurt her. He also felt bad for Linda remembering her on her dying bed unable to do anything about it helpless like a child waiting for the inevitable. Even though he did not approve of her licentious ways he always loved her and never did anything to hurt her, back in Chapter 8 pg 125 John wanted to hurt Pope rather than his mother because he cared for her so much. He is mad at himself for forgetting her when he had promised her on her dying bed that he would never forget her. Remembering Lenina furthered his anger because it was Lenina he wanted to forget but couldn't. And this shows how he was unkind because he forgot his own mother depicting that the love he had for Lenina was stronger than the love he had for his mother.
Once John has isolated himself in the wilderness, he is soon harassed by various news reporters and a filmmaker named Darwin Bonaparte who films John whipping himself. What is the symbolism behind Bonaparte's name and his reaction to John's self-mutilation? (pg. 252-253)
ReplyDeleteMaria Savarese Block 4
In response to Phillip's question
ReplyDeleteWhen John cries out to the news reporters that "Pain's a delusion", he is referring to the pains of everyday living which society refuses to acknowledge. John believes that soma, society's way to suppress pain, is unimportant and irrelevant because that pain isn't really a pain; it is the only way to live, the only way to learn and grow. Pain must be experienced or happiness is virtually impossible. John pairs "pain's a delusion" with "evil's an unreality if you take a couple of grammes". This goes hand in hand with John's and ultimately Huxley's belief that soma does nothing but create a world of censored beings who cannot handle the daily tolls of life.
Maria Savarese Block 4
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ReplyDeleteWhy is it that John poisons himself (page 247) and inflicts pain (page 257) upon himself to feel that he has earned redemption unlike the civilized society?
ReplyDeleteHow does John's insistance on NOT using "synthtic" food materials portray his deeper (possibly guilty) feelings towards the pleasures of civilization?
ReplyDeleteAlex Upp
Block 4
Huxley's use of the word pneumatic is evident throughout the novel, however he only uses the word to describe women and a chair, is there a significant reason for that?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Sue-Ann's question:
ReplyDeleteThroughout the novel, John periodically "purifies" himself through the Indian method of self-inflicted pain. It can be inferred that John does this to rid himself of the excess that comes along with the pleasures of civilized society.
In specific reference to page 247 and 257, John poisons himself out of guilt of his sucumbence to the vice of civilization. Faced with a dichotomy between his values and the world around him, John considers self-punishment as the only way to address his guilt and naivete for civilized society. Ultimately faced with insanity, John earns "redemption" though punishment as an effort to address his guilt and his now caustic views of the phrase "Brave New World."
In response to Alex's question:
ReplyDeleteI believe that John is trying to "stick it" to civilization. He is saying that he has consumed enough of this civilization and he wants no more. John says that he wouldn't eat it even if he was starving. This shows that John in no way agrees with the civilization; not even what they eat. He feels that if he were to eat the synthetic food he would be giving into a society that he doesn't agree with at all, a society that treats him like a savage, and watched his mother die with no remorse. All of these events have built up inside of him and if he were to even eat the same food as them it would be a way of saying that he agreed with their society.
Andrea Siluk
Block 2
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ReplyDeleteQuestion:
ReplyDeleteIn Chapter 14, John decides to exile himself from civilization's "poison." There is a deeper meaning behind going out into nature in self exile. Please give and discuss and allusion to John's act of self exile.
Vanessa Whitney
Block 2
IN RESPONSE TO MADAMOISELLE AMY MARSHALL'S QUESTION:
ReplyDeleteMustapha Mond ached for "his society." An intellegent mind forced to watch as his citizens live life in ignorance, sheltered by the overpowering and controlling government. Mond wanted to bring this pain to John, the realization that perhaps, ignorance is bliss. Why should we interpret works of art and literature? Why should we use our brain power to fulfill these wants, and why not just understand the literal of meaning of things? John had the knowledge, like a prophet, the knowledge that could cause harm to the society that its founders fought so hard to create; the perfect society in which everyone lived without asking questions or thinking for one's self. John responds to Bernard after the meeting with Mond, exclaiming that he "ate civilization." He was exposed to the true meaning of the society, a socitey built on hidden truths, too powerful for the mind. Why should he be forced to shut down his mind and his thoughts? John wanted to LIVE, not live within the confines of a mighty system. He wanted to breathe and understand life, not just live it. Mond knew what would eventually happen, which is why he let John stay in the society. He knew that the world he built would be too overhwhelming for John, perhaps to send John a message that times have changed and one man simply cannot forget it or try to hide from it. We must deal with these occurences head on.
-Evan Jackson
Block II
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ReplyDeleteIn response to Maria's question...
ReplyDeleteOnce John has isolated himself in the wilderness, he is soon harassed by various news reporters and a filmmaker named Darwin Bonaparte who films John whipping himself. What is the symbolism behind Bonaparte's name and his reaction to John's self-mutilation? (pg. 252-253)
Darwin Bonaparte's name has an allusion to Napoleon Bonaparte. The symbolism behind the name Darwin Bonaparte's reflects his personality in relation the civilized world.
Napoleon Bonaparte was Emperor of France from 1804 - 1815. Napoleon became emperor through a military coup d'etat and immediately established himself as a conqueror to have France maintain a dominant position in Europe. This alludes to Darwin Bonaparte's skill as a top documentary film director and his desire to exploit anything valuable he could get his camera lens and microphones to capture. Darwin Bonaparte's reaction to John's self mutilation is one of satisfaction because Bonaparte remarks "Splendid! Splendid!" several times while capture John's actions on film. Bonaparte's reaction compares to the Napoleon Bonaparte's leadership in the Napoleonic Wars because Darwin Bonaparte took hold of John's pain to exploit it for his own benefits.
Just as Napoleon wished to rule all of Europe, Darwin Bonaparte is a character that reflects modern civilization's desire to conquer the world on their new, fundamental ideas. Napoleon sought to make all of Europe under one rule, his own just as Darwin Bonaparte in Brave New World wanted to conquer the mystery that was John the Savage use it to enthrall civilization because John does not conform to society's one way of living. Darwin Bonaparte exploited John's different way of living and encouraged mass amounts of people to come out and harass John which eventually led to John's suicide.
Vanessa Whitney
Block 2
''the whip! Do the whipping stunt!'' answered a hundred voices confusedly.(In page 256) then on page 255; like locust, a swarm of hovering machines that let out people hungry for entertainment, taking pictures, throwing him food, throwing SEX HORMONE chewing gum.(notice sex being a carnal desire) I believe this scene was representing Luke 4 from the bible, where Satan tempts Jesus. Later in Luke 4:4 Jesus answers Satan saying ''It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God'' Which I think is what Huxley is trying to show throughout the whole book. Because no matter how conditioned, and genetically altered humanity was, the feelings of love, guilt, and purity always surfaced these alterations. And then we have the social perspective; Humanity has always rejoiced in the news of pain, blood, and sufferment, just like in the pages I mentioned above.
ReplyDeleteI would like to know if any other person has a different or deeper view on these quotes I mentioned on top?
William Arthur Weeks,
Block IV
Question:
ReplyDeleteChapter 18 on page 257, when it is stated that the Savage is whipping the woman, she screams for "Henry" who bolts away from them. The meaning of the name Henry is ruler. Could this possibly signify God, the ultimate ruler, cringing or running away from them because of their extremely sinful ways, which John is trying to punish them for? Also John's action, which are caused by anger could they deem him just as bad if not even worst than the people of society?
In response to Ginette:
Last time we see John he is consumed by anger, fear, and hatred all of which are great sins. When he wakes up, he comes to realization of what he has committed and knowing there is nowhere for him to go where he’ll be accepted and angry at himself for committing such an act could just represent John as a mere human unable to deal with so much emotions all at once. John is religious, but he just could not deal with what happened. Just because people commit sins does not make them non-religious, just makes them sinners.
I think I just answered Alex Upp's question by the way...in a way. ;p
ReplyDeleteIn response to Francheska's question:
ReplyDeleteJohn's chose to live in the lighthouse to get away from society. In doing so, he chose to shun all elements of civilized life, including music. John wished to be purified of the filth of society. Any entertaining action that John may have performed could have been influenced by civilization. Thus, John decided to avoid all enjoyable activities.
In response to Cheyenne’s question and Jalina’s answer:
ReplyDeleteI took the comparison of John’s dangling feet to “two unhurried compass needles” to mean something quite different. From a literal perspective, I understood the different directions to show the way John’s body faces as the rope he hangs from winds and unwinds. The fact the rope is still coiling tighter and uncoiling when the people arrive shows that he had recently hung himself, because after a while the rope and John’s body would have been completely still. With that said, authors write with a purpose! Therefore, there is a deeper meaning that just the literal north, south, east, west directions.
Huxley writes, “the feet turned toward the right; north, north-east, east, south-east, south, south-south-west; then paused, and after a few seconds, turned as hurriedly back towards the left.” Just as John was about to make one full revolution back to facing north, he stops a few degrees short and south-south-east and begins to head back the other way. This symbolizes that John’s character never made a full circle. He grew up the in savage reservation yearning to understand the meaning of society and its creators, and just when he begins to understand John takes him abruptly to the “brave new world”. John became the outcast more than ever in the modern society and when he attempted once again to understanding the meaning of life he was reprimanded. John tried to escape society by living on the outskirts of town and living a very religious life, but in the end he couldn’t stand it anymore. He was never able find meaning in the cruel world, which ultimately led to his death - an incomplete circle with a tragic ending.
Amy Marshall
Block 2
In response to Francheska's question:
ReplyDeleteJohn fled to the lighthouse to escape the civilized society. He chose to live there so he would not be infected by "the filth of civilized life." He wished to start over. Singing was an aspect that took place in the society and he did not wish to be a part of that. After his mother, Linda, died, he made a promise to keep the memory of her alive. However, he neglected to keep this promise. John not only felt guilty of breaking that promise, but blamed himself for his mother's death, as well. He did not want the actions of the civilized society to rub off on him and felt that he did not deserve to be happy and sing because of the death of his mother.
Cheyenne Hall
block 4
On page 251, Huxley writes “for hours at a stretch the sky above his head was empty and, but for the larks, silent.” Later, on page 253, he notes “[He] was delighted to hear, in a momentary lull, the shrill singing of a lark.” What is the significance of repeating the larks’ presence in the two scenes? Symbolically, what could the larks possibly mean? What religious and biblical references, if any, are associated with the singing of larks?
ReplyDeleteJeannie Matthews :^)
Yes Chandler, I do find it interesting that John flees to the lighthouse! :)
ReplyDeleteBefore the end of the twentieth century, lighthouses were inhabited by keepers who controlled the structures’ functions and ensured navigational accuracy for those at sea. Eventually, lighthouses became fully automated and keepers were no longer needed. The evolution of lighthouse technology is similar to the evolution of society before and after the Nine Years’ War. In the pre-New World civilization, society is governed primarily by its people in the same manner a lighthouse is overseen by a keeper. Each resident is the “keeper” of his or her own life. In the Brave New World, however, the Other Place is dominated by those in high power, like Mustapha Mond. The Controllers are the “automated” parts of the lighthouse and hinder the keepers from dictating their own lives, truly inhabiting their own society, and having a legitimate voice.
The function of the lighthouse is evident – it aids in sailors’ navigation and warns them of danger. In Brave New World, the lighthouse is symbolic of John’s quest for seclusion and punishment. Because they caution seamen of hazards, the lighthouse in the novel foreshadows John’s impending death. The radiation of light is a biblical reference to the “Salt and Light” verses in the book of Matthew, Chapter 5, which state “You are the light of the earth” and command “let your light shine before men” so others may also receive salvation. This suggests that the lighthouse John occupies proves to be the location of his ultimate salvation, or escape rather, from the wickedness of civilization and the wickedness instilled upon him by the Brave New World.
Jeannie Matthews :^)
I believe that the image of Lenina as well as the influence from the crowd caused John to lash out on her. John whips himself to repent from sins and to block out the impure thoughts that he has. Earlier in this chapter, page 252, it is indicated that “it was the presence of Lenina that haunted” John. He whips himself to get Lenina out of his mind and almost blames her for his thoughts. While he whipped himself, he shouted “Strumpet! Strumpet!” “as though it were Lenina.” This indicates that he wanted to whip Lenina prior to the events on page 257.
ReplyDeleteWhile the crowd is edging him on, it is assumed that he already has thoughts of whipping Lenina because he has thoughts of whipping himself. Then, when he sees her he rushes at her screaming the same words, “strumpet” that he was screaming when he previously whipped himself. He was fulfilling a previous desire; the crowd intensified his actions. The crowd as well as his previous desires prompted John’s actions. This all came together to result in him whipping Lenina.
This is a response to Cinthya's question.
(On the very last page) What do you think the significance of Huxley only showing Johns feet after he hangs himself is? Also what may the repeated turning of his feet indicate? ("the feet turned towards the right; north, north-east, east, south-east, south, south-south-west; then paused, and, after a few seconds, turned as unhurriedly back towards the left. South-south-west, south, south-east, east. …") Finally, what may be the significance of comparing his feet to "two unhurried compass needles"?
ReplyDelete--Dakota Edelstein
In response to Shanika's question:
ReplyDeleteI think that Huxley was trying to portray the irrationality of the whole situation. The only thing that separates us from the animals is our ability to reason and in the final chapter it would appear that society and john have both lost their sense of reason. John goes to one extreme, condemning himself to solitude, while society is at the other end, acting on mob mentality. Both extremes can be seen as completely irrational and lacking any sort of reason, making the actions made by John and society animalistic. I think Huxley is also making a commentary on the mindlessness of both pure emotion, John, and mob mentality. When John is whipped up into a frenzy by the crowd he, almost without thought, attacks Lenina. He is driven to the point of mindlessly attacking the women he once loved. Similarly the crowd acts robotically by chanting "We–want–the whip! We–want–the whip!". The people in the crowd don't think individually, and simply think as an uncontrollable amoeba.
--Dakota Edelstein
In responce to dakotas question:
ReplyDeleteI know that compasses act up like that when a shuttle is close to space. So i think it meant that john went to a higher place when he died. His feet off the ground representing that his spirit ascended
In response to Izzy,
ReplyDeleteFrom the time John became a part of the World State he was recognized as different. He was not the same as everyone else, he had different values, different morals, and came from a different culture. At first, he did not want to conform to any of the parts of the World State because he believed he really was not one of them. All of this pressure finally brought John off of the edge. There was only one thing he could do to get away from his problems, which was taking soma. So he took it, he felt good for a limited time, but when he came out of the “soma holiday” he realized it did not solve his problems, leading to his demise.
Brandon Richards
Block 2
The response to Cheyenne
ReplyDeleteThe significance is that John never made a full circle with his life. He went through the whole faze of hearing about the New World and how it’s perfect .He hoped that he could someday be able to go there. He hated where he life was heading in the village because he was treated like an outsider although he was raised amongst them. He felt that he didn’t belong to that particular clan of people. Once he got to the “New World” they treated him like an animal not even like a human being. They considered him a “savage” and they didn’t many experiments on him. Even in Chapter 18 they throw peanuts at him as if he was an ape/ He was never happy and he never found himself within the New World or on the Reservation. In the book it says, “like two unhurried compass needles, the feet turned towards the right; north, north-east, east, south-east, south, south-south west; then toward the left. South-south-west, south, south-east east…” and basically his feet never went all the way around the same way his life never went all the way around. He was stuck in the same situation within two different environments.
In response to Ginette's question, by John killing himself it proves what John says when talking to Helmholtz, "I ate civilization...It poisoned me". I would still consider him religious I believe he just lost sight of what he really believed in and how to properly deal with his situations. In the Crucible when it was said "Life is God's most precious gift, no principle, however glorious justifies the taking of it" this quote pretty much sums it all up for me.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Katherine's question:
ReplyDeleteI believe that rather than his seclusion from society leading to his demise it was his unwillingness to conform in a society based on conformity. Much like the society we live in, nonconformity drives a wedge between those who fight it and those who resist, thus causing a further division. So John, rather than conforming and allowing himself to live in a society he despised, he further secluded himself -- further seperating him and causing people to continue to be fascinated/confused by him, torturing him even more. I believe that this seclusion from the society he knew as well as the society he wasn't familiar with and the choice to not conform to either drove a wedge between him and his surroundings, causing him to be a "tortured soul" and believing he had no other option, although it was his own fault. Not necessarily supporting conformity, but finding an even moderation between individuality and conforming.
In response to Katherine's question: As we've seen through John's progression from excitement for the 'civilization' to his disgust in it all, the seclusion had progressed as well. Slowly but surely John puts himself into seclusion by distancing himself from those who brought him into the civilization. By choosing to no longer talk to the countless strangers interested in meeting the "Savage", but more attaching to someone like Watson who, like himself, seemed to be an outsider (though not to the same degree). In my opinion, John's realization that despite Watson, he was alone in the whole world and belonged to no society and their standards, and the isolation and acceptance that his views were of his own and to be shared and understood by no one else. Perhaps the immense stress of that in itself was enough to drive John to take his life, in order to relieve himself from the disappointment and pressure of just being an outsider.
ReplyDeleteBryana Bell
B4
In response to Alex's question,
ReplyDeletei believe that John's rejection of the synthetic food is simply an extension of his rejection of societal norms. He is tired of everything being easy and enjoyable and wants to expierence a real struggle. He even goes so far as to flip out when he unintentionally begins singing or thinking about the beautiful Lenina. He only took the synthetic food because he had no other option if he wished to stay alive. If he had anything else to eat, something he could kill or forage for himself perhaps, he would most certainly not taken the sociatially provided food.
hope that was thoughful enough :)
Rev. Mack Kennedy
On page 242- "In spite of their sadness-because of it, even; for their sadness was a symptom of their love for one another- the three young men were happy.”
ReplyDeleteIn a society that has virtually annihilated disease and emotion, how are John, Helmholtz, and Bernard able to feel sadness, love, and happiness- are they actually feeling them at all? Why is this quotation described as listing “symptoms” that correlate with a condition? Is there a connection between the two?
Cassie Rall
Dakota’s question-
ReplyDeleteI believe the significance of John’s feet after he hangs himself is he is no longer physically looking for a place to fit in, he is just dangling in midair- no longer worrying about which path to go down for isolation. The rotation of John’s feet indicates that he has not come “full circle” from the time he was introduced in the novel. He was always stuck in between two worlds. John was not accepted on the Savage Reservation, or in the “Brave New World”. When one points a compass in a direction, it automatically knows which way to face, which direction it is in, there is no delay. John did not know which direction to turn to, even in isolation, he was no longer isolated. He saw the “hovering machines” that carried people to view him as if he were as caged animal, when he really went into the woods to get away from being a spectacle. Hanging himself was his only escape. As he turned “unhurriedly back towards the left” like “two unhurried compass needles” it symbolizes that he did not need any direction to turn to, there was no rush to find the way out, and he had escaped.
Cassie Rall
In response to Andrea Siluk’s question:
ReplyDeleteThe entire reason for the reservation camps and this entire society being created is to create a utopia for these people where basically happiness is ignorance, in other words, ignorance is bliss. Well although the leaders of this society created these conditioning programs and the soma to keep them from getting incorporated with the truth, the human instinct was never completely destroyed no matter how hard they tried. No matter how good the program was, you still had people like Bernard who felt like an outsider because he understood some truth in the matter. You also had people like Lenina who although obeyed the rules of everyone belonging to everyone, she still ended up falling in love with John. She felt the anxiety of having a crush on someone that shows no interest in them and the strong want to have that someone notices them. Although the conditioning kept her from wanting something the uncommon married life with kids like John did, she still could not help loving him because it is in her human nature. So yes they could have taken the soma, but there are certain things that are human nature and I believe that their fascination of death was one of them. Death was something that was conditioned to be watered down to keep them from having those human emotions of sadness and grief, but as you can, the human nature was never completely taken away.
Vashti Powell
Block 4
In response to Ginette's question:
ReplyDeleteI think that although John committed suicide he still is a religious person in the end. John did whatever he can to stay true and in this new world he is end the only escape from all the horrible things is death. In a way he became free with his death because he didn't have to live in a world full of sins. Johns death is like a relief of his shoulders, he had to take in so much about the new world in one time that it eventually becomes an overload.
In the beginning of chapter 18, John said that he was sick because he "ate civilization" and on page 242 said that he was now purified because he drank some mustard and warm water because "That's how the Indians always purified themselves." So by John doing this, does he still believe that although the way the Indians lived were savage, they still had better understanding of how to handle problems in life then the new civilization did?
ReplyDeleteVashti Powell
Block 4
In Brave New World, religion plays an important role in defining a society. In chapter 18, John whips himself repeatedly in order ask for forgivness while the people of Brave New World find his actions to be intruging yet futile. In chapter 17, pg.234, Mustapha Mond states that "God isnt capable of running machinery" while on page 42 the "Controller" forces social stability into the minds of the people of Brave New World by implying the belief that machines are what make society run and without them, society will die. Compare and contrast these two views of religion and create a conclusion as to which style of belief Huxley believes in.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Mack's question, I find John's want for isolation to be admirable and the best decision that he could have made. In Chapter 17 pg. 240, "The Savage" states "I claim the right to be unhappy" which means that he wants to stray away from all of the superficial, mundane tasks of Brave New World and wants to be able to make his own decisions and learn from them even if they may be the wrong ones. He wants to make a statment to society that living is possible without synthetic happiness and that self-denial or beliving in God is a common ideal that all people should invest in order to make their lives better. This sort of belief and thought process deserves high recognition and applause for being able to step away and stand up to a society where life is easy and predestined into a whole new style of living where decisions are made, people learn from their mistakes, and history is written in the present.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Brian,
ReplyDeleteMonds description of religon, even though he would never consider it, is simply predicated on the idea that the machienes will remain ever-present and take care of it's people. The roles of the innovations and machines in BNW, like Soma, forgives the user much like how John attempts to purify himself. The diffrence is that to John a Deity is pulling the strings whereas in the BNW the machinery is simple always phisically there and no one questions it.
In BNW the idea of what is right and what is wrong is a constant theme, as well as what is morally acceptable and what isn't in a society regardless the society. What is the diffrence between the Reservation's moral standards and BNW's moral standards, and how does this effect the characters who have to be a part of both no matter how long?
ReplyDeleteIn response to Sylvia:
ReplyDeleteI believe that Bernard's and Helmholtz's banishment to the island was done more for their sakes. Even though they acted like his "disciples" and could have helped John when he went crazy because of the civilized people coming to stalk him, I don't think it would have changed John's mind at all. When John went crazy in a previous scene of people getting their soma, Bernard and Helmholtz didn't really do much to stop him. I don't think their forced "abandonment" of him had any significance on his actions. It was sort of like the last straw when he could not be left alone, and I believe he would have done the same thing regardless.
Izabella Szura
Block 2
In response to Chandler Gelb
ReplyDeleteYes, I do find John escaping to the lighthouse interesting, because that is where he chooses to stay out of sight and alone from the “civilized” rest of society. In the previous pages 243-244; John tells Bernard and Helmholtz that since he isn’t going to the island, he decides just wants to get away on his own. That was an important conversation to keep before disappearing from society’s eye, his earnest to find himself. The lighthouse is indeed a beacon for those who are lose, and everyone in their society has a purpose, so maybe he goes there to find his. And I believe I am correct, because as soon as he reaches, his goal to somehow redeem forgiveness from his god. He purpose was obviously not met because he found the need to kill himself. And regarding the radiation of light, I do not think this lighthouse was working that well in the first place; if that was the case more people would have noticed it and maybe came by; but it wasn’t due to the fact the area was secluded.
I forgot why we had an extra day ;(
Jonell Joseph
Block 2
In reponse to Mack's question i believe that Johns decesion to live in solitude and eventually kill himself is better than becoming a world controller becasue he stuck to what he believed in. John did not like the way that the society was. He also refused to conform and give up what he loved like Mustapha Mond did. They both liked literature and they had to make a moral decesion. I think that John had higer morals than Mustapha Mond because he stayed firm to his beliefs and that shows character. Mond gave up his love just to please others.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Edward's question, the morals in BNW are very complicated. The reservation had different traditiona and a whole other way of thinking. They believed that human sacrifice was necessary to survive in everyday life. Their morals based more along the line of survival. Where as in the BNW their morals were a lot more slack and frowned upon by the savages. Everything in their culture was all about being "free" and doing what you wanted when you wanted. Everyone was "happy" all the time and sex made the world go around. These two completely different morals and society's greatly effected the characters that were involved with both because they had to try and convince themselves that what they were taugth was right and everything other than what they knew was wrong. It was more of an inner battle between good and evil instead of a physical battle. Although at the end John shows that the inner was released and show in a physical act of suicide.
ReplyDeleteTatjana Lightbourn
2nd Block
*Sorry Ms. Hurst I was not able to get to a computer before now*